The Time and Place. (A debate)

Hey guys [:

Well, after many posts, several evil glares at bashing newbies, and finally a calm anti who was willing to explain, I've decided we need a debate thread This thread is only to debate why you do or do not like Twilight and the other books. There are rules to make sure this thread stays in check and does not get locked. Here they are:

FOR ALL IN GENERAL:

• R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Give it to get it. You are required to be respectful to all members all the time anyway, but it goes double in here. There are to be no insults, hurtful comments, or just plain idiocy. Think before you speak.
  
• NO outbursts. Everything you say needs to be backed up with evidence, or a politely stated opinion. If you can't do either of those, then you can't post.
  
• No spamming, please. This is a general board rule as well, but it needs to be pointed out again. There will be no "ZOMG I LUVVVV EDDYKINS SO MUCH AND THAT IS WHY I WIN THIS DEBATE HE IS AWESOME AND THIS IS MY OPINION SO SHUT IT ALL YOU OTHER PEOPLE!!!!!!!!" Err...no. Just no. Stop and bang your head on a wall. Maybe, miraculously, some common sense and manners and a forgotten grammar lesson or two will fly back into your noggin. Don't do that, guys. That is not supporting your opinion politely, nor is it grammatically correct, both of which irks me extremely
  
• Use correct grammar, please! It is much easier to debate when you know what everyone is saying...lik u no wat i mean? Seriously, though. Don't do that.
  
• Keep the peace. This is a debate, not a slap fight. Keep it withing the rule boundaries or keep it to yourself. Report any violations of any of these rules to me.

So. If you think there is another rule that should be added, let me know and I'll get to it
Violations of these rules could lead to banning from the thread, the forum, or worse. Play nice, even if you don't support what someone else is saying.

Post your opinions, go on.

This is just wonderful! And I can't think of any more rules, but if I do I will be sure to let you know.

(This is the third time i have started to write my debate since my com is being stupid and annoying XD}
Cool thanks Dizz. So my opinion;

I love Twilight {and dislike it} and not just because of Edward, true sparkly vampires WTH? I saw the book in the book store and something about it caught my eye. I read the blurb and decided to read it. I fell in love with Twilight, and not just because of sparkly vampires or D)Edward. (Did someone just scream XD) Sure, the book has is flaws--and Steph does use her thesaurus a lot. But who doesn't love big words as long as when you read the sentence it makes sense? YES the book is sort of sexist in that Bella can't seem todo anything for herself. Sure, Edward is abusive not letting her do things like visit Jacob and taking the engine out of her car. And if you people out there who think Edward is perfect...well that's your choice. No one can be perfect--it's impossible and against the laws of something or other. The book does portray bad messages like having a child when you're a teen. So, I like and hate it. Go SWITZERLAND lolz

EDITED BY TWIRLS...TO MAKE READING IT LESS UNBEARABLE

NOT TO OFFEND ANYONE, but I've gone back and edited CJ's post--solely for the purpose of fixing the numerous MUGS errors contained therein. It's a lot easier to debate when you can read your opponent's argument, n'est-ce pas?

Alrighty then, time for an anti's take on it!

I discovered Twilight in 2006, and I wasn't impressed. While Ms. Meyer had some potential with her voice, there were a few too many grammar mistakes grammatical errors; it was very repetitive (how many times do you have to tell us how beautiful Edward is? WE GET IT); Edward and Bella never really fell in love (although they were close enough for Edward to be abusive and get away with it); there didn't seem to be much plot, and I disliked most of the characters (when your three favorite characters are Charlie, Jessica, and Eric you probably won't love the book). Also, Ms. Meyer didn't seem to overuse her thesaurus, so much as misuse it (for example: incandescent fits better when you're describing a lightbulb than a vampire). And one other thing: Before Edward started glittering, I was so excited about what was happening. Like, what if he became horribly disfigured in the sunlight? Then Bella would have to get to know the real Edward, and fall in love for real. But no, he had to get even prettier. It was a major disappointment.

{hehe Thanks Twirlz }
Yeah that is kinda weird. If Edward looked like really retarded {For want of a better word} I the sun the book would have been better--as I said before sparkly vampires WTH? The plot was good but not really well written. Also, the middle section on twilight is really just filling up space--NOTHING HAPPENS. And the characters are just too perfect, if you know what I mean. Like, come on. Everyone has flaws, but despite all they negative stuff {Again for want of a better word} I still love the book. I recognize there are flaws in it but I...Just like it. I can't really explain it too well.

with the whole "they say edward is beautiful to many times" remember that it is in Bella's perspective you enter her mind and you see what she is thinking. if she thinks that Edward is beautiful too much then so be it. But I know that if I had a geogeous boyfriend then I would think that he is geogeous.

But she doesn't seem to notice much other than his beauty. It's like, why else do you like him? She never really says.

You're right, she doesn't really ever say. Still, you have to remember that this is the Twilight universe--and Edward is a vampire. He's designed to draw you in, and make it so that you can't think about anything but him. Maybe his physical appeal is just so intoxicating that she can't begin to consider anything else for more than a few moments at a time.

See, that's why my friend likes Jacob, she says they call Edward beautiful too many times. Personally, the reason I love the Twilight series so much is because it opened a whole new genre of books to me that I never would have touched before. I don't think you can really bash the Twilight vampires around much because they sparkle, as if you read any other vampire book, each author has their own idea of what vampires are like, Anne Rice- Immortal, sleep in coffins, start dying in daylight, sleep all day. J.L Smith- Immortal, can't go in a house without being invited, burn to ashes in daylight, certain pieces of jewelry can keep them from burning up in daylight, move fast, can't pass onto holy grounds, can't go over water. P.C. Cast and Kristin Cast- Their vampires start out as human and are marked, they get things like tatoos all over their faces and when they feed on humans, it only makes a blood tie, they get tired in daylight. Stephenie has facts to back up why her vampires would sparkle, just like any other author would have facts to back up why their vampires burn in sunlight or sleep in coffins.

As for the that's all Bella thinks of thing, Edward is technically the predator, as Twirls said, it's his design to draw humans in.

I get the whole sparkling thing, it was just a bit of a disappointment. There were so many possibilities, and Ms. Meyer took the most, for want of a better word, shallow approach.

Ah, but she also took the most unexpected approach, when you hear 'vampires' you usually think fangs, coffins, crosses, garlic classic stuff. She brought something new to the table with it.

True, but most people usually think of vampires as monstrous creatures, but also beautiful ones. There are even some stories about people who wanted to remain young and gorgeous for all eternity, so they became vampires. Ms. Meyer just took that angle to the extreme. I give her credit for playing with an idea, but the vampires were already supposed to be beautiful, and the sparkling just seemed a little bit overdone.

Sparkling only adds a factor that no one else could have thought of. It makes the vampires in her stories origional. Like the person who came up with burning in the sun or JK Rowling nameng the castle Hogwarts!? No mater how stupid any part of a book my be and makes things interesting. Also with out the sparkling Edwardwould have never left during that sunny bit and that would have taken alot out of the story.

I think the sparkling is better than bursting into flames when exposed to the sun. I rather liked Twilight, I liked the writing, and how the book was set up. Stephenie Meyer created her own unique type of vampires. I don't see how you didn't like Twilight, even for a few days or weeks. I have liked Twilight for around a year now. I have watched it go from hardly known book to a world wide phenomenon. Yes, I admit that at first I did NOT want to read it. To me, it didn't seem like that good of a book. But it was. What I would like to know, it what parts of Twilight caused you to not like it. I don't see how a few type-os would be the cause of that. Steph Meyer wrote her books in a great way. She got me into reading vampire books.\
How goes the sparkling seem over done?
And, Boo, THANK YOU for talking about the House of Night Series and the books my J.L. Smith I have all the books in both series
Twilight Vampire's are classic.
☼Sparkle, Not burn. Thats good, they wont die in the sunlight.
☼SUPERFAST. They need it to hunt
☼REALLYPRETTY. If they hunt humans, it helps them hunt.

Ok well since I am major SWITZERLAND I shall be arguing both sides.

For the Haters:

Twilight was an immature book with a romanticized ideal of love and life. It was written, lets face it, for 13 year old girls. It as almost an non existent plot and very undeveloped characters. In fact some of the characters seemed to regress and become more immature and many of the character traits seem to contradict themselves in the book e.g. in Bella is described as a independent, grownup, and selfless person. We see all of her main personality traits retracted when she falls in love with Edward (personally I don't know how anyone can describe a total dependance and obsessing with someone love. Just because it is reciprocated doesn't make it right. Take a page from Hemingway who describes love as having strength enough in inner being to love someone yet not be destroyed when that is taken away) she becomes dependent, needy and especially with Jacob selfish.

Most of the other characters were marysues with little or no development. They all fall in to predictable, simple categories and never do anything that wouldn't be expected of them. The writing itself is as shallow as possible and has no other meaning except the top layer. Meyer's dialogue is atrocious being shallow and meaningless, if you have ever read Hemingway you will know what dialogue is supposed to be.

I have so many other arguments but I think I will stop there.

For the Twihards

Though I will admit it is not a very good piece of literature there is something compelling about it. Though the characters may be predicable and marysues they make you care about them. The idea of Twilight is the what makes it so good. Meyer helps you fall into the place of Bella and be able to imagine yourself in that position. I think she also does a good job of describing the setting so you can really picture it. All in all there is something intangible about the book that draws the reader and leaves you wanting more.

Other parts that I disliked included the blatant disregard for feminism, the romanticizing of abusive relationships, the fact that there was very little actual plot other than Edward and Bella discussing how their relationship is dangerous and how much they love each other (when they don't, as there is no chemistry, and they barely know each other). Also, other than the grammar, Ms. Meyer made a few historical mistakes.

Meyer explained that her belief of feminism is the belief in choice and Bella choses to be a wife. I also don't understand how the relationship is abusive could someone please explain that to me. Though I do agree there really is no underlying chemistry in the book besides from the blatant love scenes.

They think that the relationship is abusive because Edward 'restricts' Bella from doing thinks that she wants to do, like visit Jacob and such. But really, if you just think about it, Edward is trying to PROTECT Bella. As I hope you know, Jacob is a young werewolf, and he can lose his temper sometimes. And it doesnt help if Bella visits him smelling like a vampire and him knowing that Edward is back along with the rest of his family. Plus the fact the Jacob is hurt that Bella is back with Edward.

This may sound odd, but when I was first reading Twilight, (and reading it in the middle of the night, I might add) I felt oddly full. Kinda happy. Twilight was one of the best books that I have ever read, and that's really saying something. I loved the way they Stephenie Meyer wrote the saga, its wonderful. I love how unique the series is.

Some people say that they read the books and that they hate them so badly. Some people read them, loved them, then grew out of the obsession and hated them. Some even created Anti- Twilight fan sites, such as www.twilightsucks.com. I can understand that they hate the books, but to go as far as to making a web site (a very nice site, I hate to say. Its set up wonderfully) to bash the very book that thousands of girls/guys love/like/respect is a tad extreme to me.

Some Twilight Haters say that the books were badly written. Some say that it was totally unrealistic. Well, duh! Its a fiction vampire book. I found it very believable.

I can give you many reasons why I like Twilight. For one, it was one of the best written books that I have read. You can tell from what I posted above.

Who is ready for Mace's rant on Twilight? Well, too bad if you aren't.

I do not like Twilight. Why? Becasue-it's rather simple- I don't believe in love. When I first read Twilight I thought it was okay. I read all four book and then the 'Twilight Explosion' happened, and, to me, it is so rediculous how people are obssesed with it. Guys, I'm sorry about that but, no offense.

New Moon was bareable because it was more realistic, besides the ending. I do agree that Stephanie Meyer is a great writer but Twilight did not show it. The Host was the better book.

Bottom line, I don't like Twilight. The reason I'm still on this site is because I love you kids so much.

@SisterToSleep: Just because Edward wants to protect Bella doesn't make it any less abusive. Being restrictive, reminding Bella that he can kill her easily, and taking her to see the Cullens, despite the fact that they could kill Bella just as easily as Jacob and are actually more tempted to do so, are all mentally and emotionally abusive actions. And, while I don't believe Edward and Bella are in love, "even the most loving person" is capable of emotional abuse, to quote Beverly Engel.

Another thing that bothered me is Ms. Meyer's horrendous misuse of her vocabulary, which I mentioned earlier. For example, chagrin used in Twilight to mean a positive feeling actually means a feeling of vexation, marked by disappointment or humiliation.